Jeff Bergosh · Top Commenter · School Board Member- 1st District at Escambia County School Board Office
We follow the law Richard White--and you are dead wrong on this issue. I will stand my ground on this and not cow-tow to the loudest voice in the room on this. Understand this Richard---- as long as we are diverse in the selection of whom it is we allow to pray, then we do comport with the law and the board's attorney has confirmed this on multiple occasions at multiple meetings. Go find the tape and roll it back if you don't believe me. And the majority of the board has affirmed twice now at open meetings that we wish to continue our current practice. We are safe from losing a suit as long as we are diverse in the religious prayer we allow.. And let me tell you, we've been diverse. The last four meetings, here is the recap: 1. Christian prayer, 1. Jewish prayer, 1. Secular Oath (Future Farmers of America pledge), 1. Secular meditation (the flight of Geese). According to the law and the decisions in Marsh v. Chambers and Town of Greece v Galloway-per our attorney-we can maintain our practice of having the board rotate having speakers deliver a prayer for the benefit of the assembled legislative body (which the school board is, by the way, because we make policy and levy taxes) as it contemplates the actions it will take at the legislative assembly. Dime-store observations and arm-chair quarterbacking from those who do not apprehend this issue do not help. And one final thing. this board has not violated the law, the law does not state anything about freedom from religion--it is freedom of religion. Freedom of religion and freedom of religious expression enumerated clearly by our founding fathers, not freedom from religion or a wall of separation that appears nowhere in the constitution but rather was a phrase in a congenial letter written to a baptist association by an aging founding father, the content of which has been misappropriated and misinterpreted for centuries since...Figure these things out please for the love of God!
Reply · Like · 2 · Unfollow Post · about an hour ago
Matt Garner · Top Commenter
You show yourself in this response to be educated in the letter of the law, but in the reports of your actions during Mr. Suhor's prayer to be deficient in respect for others. For as much as you understand the legal aspect, you are woefully ignorant regarding the religious one. There is no relation whatsoever between pagan beliefs and Satanism. Satan is a solely Christian construct, and your attempt to slander Mr. Suhor as a wicked individual is not a behavior that I, personally, would want to see in a school district representative and as an example to our children.
Reply · Like · about an hour ago
David Suhor · Top Commenter · Singing telegrams at ShamaLamaGram.com
Even the town of Greece maintains a policy that ANY PERSON may give an invocation, not just those approved by board members. ECSB rejects good faith invocation offers from minorities they don't like. Your own student handbook policy is that whenever students are present (as at school board meetings), staff may not hold prayers. To start a government meeting with prayer, and only of Christian-compatible flavor, is against Jesus's command (Matthew 6:5-6 - "hypocrites"), discrimination (illegal under Galloway), and an unnecessary entanglement of church and state. And it makes non-Christians feel unwelcome. To then threaten arrest when someone else prays according to their conscience is an unconstitutional abuse of power. This is a Godzilla-size distraction from your job and an exercise in political privilege and pious pretense by the board. A moment of silence or school-relevant secular words (as in Nov, Dec) respects all in attendance. You don't want to hear other faith's prayers? Don't push yours onto public functions. Just pray in your closet beforehand.
Reply · Like · Edited · 55 minutes ago
Jeff Bergosh · Top Commenter · School Board Member- 1st District at Escambia County School Board Office
David Suhor just because you blew off the invitation my counterpart made to you does not mean we are violating any law. You know it is not about prayer for you at all it is about getting attention like with your facebook post. Just re-read my post above and understand we are in compliance with the laws and the rulings and just because you and your friends may not have yet been invited does not mean we are discriminating against anyone--but you know that already dave. And remember, you always have the option of not coming to the meeting, seeing as so far as I can tell you have no connections to the schools whatsoever, excepting your extreme desire to garner and focus all the attention on yourself. So the better idea, since I actually serve and work in schools, is that if having diverse prayers from diverse speakers offends you so badly, I'd suggest you be the one to stay in your closet and say your renditions of prayers there, then if you must come to our meetings you can come out of the closet at that point and miss the opening prayer.
Debbie Trautmann · Top Commenter · University of West Florida
Why do you feel compelled to have an invocation at all? If it is so diverse, then have a Muslim or other non-Christian do it next month.
Reply · Like · 40 minutes ago
David Suhor · Top Commenter · Singing telegrams at ShamaLamaGram.com
Jeff Bergosh Another lie, like when you denied asking me "are you Christian?" before rejecting my initial offer. I did not 'blow off' Mrs Hightower's invitation. I had a conflict that month. I cleared my schedule, then she rescinded, saying my religion is "offensive". If your policy is so open, why not put it in writing for all to see? And why not accept the multiple non-Biblical invocation offers you've received, rather than seeking out your first ever non-Xtian and unwitting token (by definition) Jewish substitute? It's the exclusion and censoring of minorities that will get the ECSB sued first. I hope you end up personally liable. BTW, I do have a connection to the schools. I am a certified social studies teacher, soon to be subbing in prep for next year's hiring. I'd make a great teacher of civics. Maybe I'll see you around school... if I don't get blacklisted.
Reply · Like · Edited · 33 minutes ago
Jeff Bergosh · Top Commenter · School Board Member- 1st District at Escambia County School Board Office
David Suhor Dave there was never any litmus test--just because you repeat that big lie over and over will never make it true--do you understand that?, the reason you were not invited by me was because you were so off-putting in your demand that I bring you as my invited guest to do a satanic prayer. That was how you wanted me to prove to you that I was not discriminating against you. I don't owe you anything, and I don't have to prove a damn thing to you, understand? You were invited and you declined. Now, get back in line and try being a little less antagonistic, why don't you? Remember, you get more more flies with honey that you will using straight vinegar.
Reply · Like · 3 minutes ago
Matt Garner · Top Commenter
Mr. Bergosh, your imperious attitude is highly off putting, and indicative of an entitled attitude. The audacity of telling another grown man to get back in line, and then in the same breath tell him that he can catch more flies with honey than vinegar!
Get a reality check, sir. You serve on a school board. That in NO way entitles you to speak to members of the public in this fashion!
Reply · Like · 10 minutes ago
David Suhor
Another lie. I have only asked to give a Pagan invocation. You mislabeled that "Satanic" and derided other traditions on your blog. The litmus test was clear when you asked "Are you Christian" no... Pagan... "oh no, not ever, ever on my watch". In fact, if you had listened to the Satanic Temple's beautiful invocation, you'd have heard a message of wisdom and reason to guide the school board. And they are agnostic, not even believing in a literal Satan. That's your fear, not mine. As for vinegar and honey, I could have asked politely for years and never been called to offer my beautiful Pagan invocation of the four directions. And what about the other offers? They are not protesting, but are still being excluded. So, yes, I choose to stand up for what's right. My own only motive is equality and Constitutional justice. Attention is necessary to make that happen - else the exclusion would be swept aside. You'll get plenty more, and not just from me. Finally, what of Matthew 6:5-6?? "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."
Richard White · Top Commenter · Gulf Breeze, Florida
Mr. Bergosh - in reference to your comments about 'dimestore opinions' and 'armchair quarterbacking, and Mr. Suhor's interest in the process, please allow me to refresh your memory. Your budget indicates that you take both Federal and State funds - as long as ECSD is slopping at the public trough then EVERY tax payer has both a right and a duty to participate in the process to see that those tax dollars are spent wisely. The very theory of taxation of childless citizens who will never use the system is based upon the notion that a good educational system will improve the quality of life for all citizens and benefit society as a whole. You are an elected public official, and as such you are the EMPLOYEE of all of those tax payers and I would request that you treat each and every one with the respect due and employer by an employee.
The very nature of your 'selection' of diverse religions to insure that no minority religions are excluded lends itself to litigation _ iw ould suggest that you ask Ms. Waters about discrimination through omission as well as direct discrimination. The fact that there is a 'selection' system at all operated completely at the direction and discretion of the Board implies that some criteria is used to make the selection, therefore it can not be absolutely proven to be free of discrimination. On the other hand if you instituted a process whereby anyone wishing to offer an invocation had their name placed in a jar and the name randomly selected there could be no charge of bias. Perhaps you should explore this, and other, options.
In that vein, and in view of your stated reason for denying Mr. Suhor's request to you, I hereby RESPECTFULLY request that I be placed in that line to give an invocation at your next earliest convenience. As you have indicated that there is a 'line' I also request to know not only my number in that line, but the identity of the others ahead of me in that line. Please advise if you need an official public record's request to provide the information that I seek.
Respectfully yours,
Richard White
Reply · Like · 23 minutes ago
David Suhor · Top Commenter · Singing telegrams at ShamaLamaGram.com
Richard White Spot on. I hope you'll speak out at the meetings as well. FYI: The BOCC uses the same discretionary (unwritten) policy, with the choice rotating between commissioners. Except that Mr May allowed me to pray (after much prodding). Mr Robertson straight up refuses non-Christians, also calling Pagans "Satanic". I suggest emailing your requests. The contact info is deep in my blog - September, I think. One thing I'll say good about Jeff - he speaks his mind.
Reply · Like · 2 seconds ago
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